Početna > Tekstovi > A onda dobijem(o) odgovor iz Marvela…

A onda dobijem(o) odgovor iz Marvela…

11 Juna 2010.

Dobio sam odgovor iz Marvela pa bih ga želio podjeliti sa vama.

Hello Filip,

Thanks for the new samples. There’s no worries about how much time it took you to do it. It’s understandable especially since you are not being paid for these.

I think there’s a lot of strong panels here but some of the story telling could be improved. Please keep these points in mind.

1.       Change how close and how far away your camera is from the action. Move the camera around so the readers feel like they are moving around with the action.

2.      Include more backgrounds to give us a better sense of place.

3.     Loosen up the poses and facial expressions of the characters. Many look a little too stiff or are facing either a 45 degree or 90 degree angle toward the reader.

4.     Try to draw the most exciting second of actions. It’s not enough to draw what is happening, but to capture the exact second when things are most exciting so the art is most exciting. Imagine what a sports photographer would look for if they’re trying to photograph a football game. What would be THE shot that would land them on the front page of a newspaper. This doesn’t have to be every panel but makes the story more dynamic and active. The reader then imagines the actions that led up to that panel and the ones afterwards and engages them more with the story.

Please feel free to work on these points on your own and later this year we can do another round of samples to see how you have developed further.


Čekaj, šta? Ubijeđen sam da sam crtao dovoljno dobre scene, šta tu konkretno ne valja?
Nakon što sam cio dan bio… razočaran? ovakvim odgovorom… u smislu da bih lakše shvatio da su rekli “ne valja ti ova ruka” ili “vidi mu (Wolverineu) glave” Maza također dobije odgovor na radove.

Hello Maza,

Thanks for the samples!

They look nice, but I’d advise the following:

Change how close and how far away your camera is from the action. You are using mostly one distance from the action and it makes the story feel static. Make the reader feel like they are there in the scene with them. Move the camera around so the readers feel like they are moving around with the action. Pull the camera out to show more of the figures.

Loosen up the poses and facial expressions of the characters. Many look a little too stiff or are facing either a 45 degree or 90 degree angle toward the reader. This gets noticed and may lead the reader to become unexcited with the storytelling.

Thanks and please keep in touch!

Molim?! Pa ovo je doslovno copy/paste odgovora koji sam ja dobio. I koji je vjerovatno dobilo gazilion drugih crtača!

U redu je da ja ili neko treći ili deseti ili čak i Maza nije pretjerano impresirao urednike svojim radovima. Ali zar se ne može reći “znaš, nije to to, nećemo te uposliti” nego “keep in touch”. Šta to znači, da im mogu/moram slati slike sa ljetovanja?

Željeli smo raditi za Marvel no dobijati odgovore koji te ostavljaju “u zraku” baš i nismo. Pogotovo jer ovo može da se protumači kao “nisi ti za Marvela” i kao “nisi ti JOŠ za Marvela”. U smislu, de ti još malo crtaj pa ćemo se onda čuti. No bez smjernica gdje sam pogriješio na prvom mjestu ne znam kako mogu ispraviti te greške.

Nemoguće da dva autora tako različitih pristupa kao ja i Maza dobijemo identičan odgovor na rad. U stvari moguće ali to onda ispada da pismo tumačimo na treći način – autor pisama je u stvari takmak.

Eh da, da ne zaboravim. Diskusija na forumu stripovi.com je malo zašla u prepucavanje (hoće to tako na tom forumu) pa se nastojte ne obazirati previše na komentare mimo teme.

Također, pogledajte i sličnu diskusiju na upps forumu gdje možete naći i radove koje je Maza poslao urednicima.

  1. 4 Avgusta 2010. u 8:09

    By IPC I am referring to the company that used to publish many of Britain;s comics. It no longer publishes comics buts its comic assets are owned by Time Warner, owners of DC Comics. Most British comics are published by Titan, Egmont and DC Thomson, although there are some smaller publishers such as Lucky Bag.

    Rebellion only publishes 2000AD and Judge Dredd: The Megazine, but has an impressive line of collected works from those two titles.

    • Emir
      4 Avgusta 2010. u 16:17

      The younger generation (1980 and onwards) got a very limited glimpse into English publishing. Older generations bought stuff like Modesty Blaise regularly, but during the 1990's and after the war the whole publishing game of ex-Yugoslavia was destroyed, and even today you rarely see English comics published (and again, only the old stuff – Modesty in Croatia, Dan Dare and Modesty in the Bosnian Strip Magazin…
      Filip and I were very lucky to read newest Judge Dredd Megazines and 2000ADs every month or so in our local British Council library for some time (6 or 7 years as I recall, correct me if I'm wrong Filip) but now even that is gone because the library's been closed. Last I read of English production was the first 7 TPBs of Nikolai Dante I bought in Slovenia for a friend, and I enjoyed it immensely.

  2. 4 Avgusta 2010. u 8:07

    Sorry for the slow response: I set up an alert to tell me when someone had replied to my post but it doesn't seem to be working.

    There is no right way to write a script. Alan Moore and others trained using the traditional IPC method and their scripts are incredibly detailed, leaving nothing to chance. (Some would say Alan's scripts are a work of art in themselves).

    I will admit that my scripts are not as detailed, but I would insist that a writer clearly details an establishing scene, for example. Any important objects or details must be identified, even if they do not form part of the action in the first frame, so the artists doesn't have to go back and put them in later. (For example, if someone is killed with a sword that was hanging on a wall, we should see that sword!)

    My feeling is that it is possible to be so demanding in a script that it gives the artist little room to ‘breathe’ and bring their own vision to the work. But at the same time, the writer must provide good clear storytelling and make sure important story elements are included in their directions.

    I put a guide to writing comics on my web site many years ago. Maybe it is useful. There are links to other comic scripting sources on it: http://www.downthetubes.net/writing_comics/index.html

    • Emir
      4 Avgusta 2010. u 16:06

      I actually tried to go through one of Moore's scripts when I was starting to write (which wasn't too long ago, actually) but couldn't do it. I felt like, why did he need an artist to draw this, he should've just written a book?
      And then I read the comic (V for Vendetta) and it just blew me away. When seeing the imagery without having to imagine what all that stuff looked like, it's a completely different work of art, the writing in itself just isn't enough.
      One of the reasons I didn't quit writing even though these damned artists won't draw what I write. 🙂

    • Emir
      4 Avgusta 2010. u 16:20

      Ah, and you should check the box next to “Obavijesti me putem emaila o narednim komentarima.”, that will notify you about any new comments, the other one is about the newest blog posts.
      We made the blog and chose the Bosnian setting in WordPress, but the translation is only partially done and goes on very slowly.

  3. 2 Avgusta 2010. u 9:04

    Speaking as a former Marvel UK editor and the current editor of the new STRIP Magazine in the UK, looking at the samples and Marvel's comments, I don't think the comments are criticism of the quality of the art.

    The problem is the storytelling. Marvel (and British) comics work at a much faster pace than many European titles and you need to move the action along much faster. Use an establishing shot not only to let the reader know what the hero is seeing, but set up the next ‘action’ in the same frame. So when Wolverine looks at the ‘aquarium’, there is is no time in a Marvel comic to ‘tease’ the reader with what he has seen. You have to show it straight away, and if possible, suggest what might happen next.

    I often find that part of the problem with seeing samples is that I do not see the script the artist was working from. An artist should not consider themselves a ‘slave’ to a script, and if the artist thinks they can ‘combine panels’ to speed up the action, you should.

    One technique I learnt at Marvel UK was that you can have two actions in a frame, which you cannot do in film. So some characters could be dealing with what has just happened on the left of frame, while other characters are already beginning to go off and do something new, setting up the next scene. This is a kind of storytelling that is unique to comics.

    I hope this is useful advice. It is neither a criticism of the feedback from Marvel you have posted or your art, I hope it is constructive.

    • Emir
      2 Avgusta 2010. u 17:10

      Yes, unfortunately, from what I've seen of the script and Filip's artwork, this is exactly what was in the script he received. I think that there is conflicting information on the web for new artists – it usually starts with – draw what's in the script. Ok, here you go, drawn comic. Yeah, it's not for us. But it's exactly like the script! Yeah, but we want to see more of your creativity and [insert stuff from the answers up there].

    • 3 Avgusta 2010. u 14:38

      I believe each artist should work closely with scriptwriter so he/she knows exactly what is important and can illustrate that precise moment. If, for instance, it is written “Wolverine enters a room”, an artist can only illustrate shadows of objects. But it can turn up that story writer intended to emphasize on those objects. Things like that can roll onwards and in the end you end up with a comic which isn’t what scriptwriter wanted and which illustrator didn’t understand.
      The exactly same thing happened here – to each one of us they throw a script and said “illustrate”. When we didn’t do it as expected they offered a loose response like “that’s not it”.
      Each one of us knows how to draw, the question is to strike the style needed for the editor. And it’s pretty hard to live in a country where one cannot buy Marvel comics and get a script with instruction “illustrate it in Marvel way”.

      But it was fun to draw/work on this and maybe the planets align again and I get in the mood of doing another set of test pages. Currently I’m working on 2nd book of Amnesia and I’m all into that cartoon drawing style which couldn’t be further away from the “Marvel way”.

  4. Emir
    15 Juna 2010. u 21:53

    “Secret Warriors” by Čolak… ima da bude pre-jebe-no.
    Još Hickman piše… možemo sa sigurnošću reći da je Mirko zbrinut do kraja života.

  5. J.Stickman
    14 Juna 2010. u 22:24

    Pretpostavljam da je prošao Mirko Čolak, ako smijem odgovoriti…

  6. Rip
    14 Juna 2010. u 14:47

    marvel je ogroman, postoji od 1939 godine!!! svaki dan dobivaju stotinjak radova od mladih crtaca…mislim da se ne trebas uzrujavati toliko zbog ovog odgovora. uzmi komentar kao konstruktivnu kritiku. nesto sto treba da poboljsas u svom radu. ja bih bio sretan kad bih mogao da pricam s nekim ko je u tom poslu duze neko sto ja postojim. bio bih zadovoljan i ovim generickim odgovorom. ali cemu se nadati od marvela kome su vecina stripova genericki.
    mislim da je odgovor za tebe i za mazu isti jer ne govori o stilu crtanja niti pogresnoj anatomiji likova i slicno, vec o necemu sto je specificno za marvelov stil kadriranja i montaze, a mozda i za bilo koju drugu strip “skolu”
    ja bih vjerovatno napravio iste greske kao vas dvojica, kao sto je pogrijesilo jos 100 ljudi koji nemaju iskustva sa marvelom.
    ali sve sto je napisao je mikro savjet koji ti moze pomoci da budes bolji…
    da ne bude kako samo serem o strip teoriji, imam i ja zelju da posaljem nesto, radim na tome…
    PS. cuo sam da je neko prosao, ne znam ko? treba vidjeti njegove table…

  7. J.Stickman
    11 Juna 2010. u 21:31

    Kopi-pejst i nije neki trud :/ AKo ćemo iskreno…

  8. vns
    11 Juna 2010. u 15:00

    Al’ nemoj sada odustati. Bez obzira sto je tekst kopi-pejst, ipak su se potrudili poslati odgovor, i naglasiti probleme, barem onako kako ih oni vide.

  9. J.Stickman
    11 Juna 2010. u 14:08

    Odveć šupački sa njihove strane, ali oni su golemi pa sebi to mogu dopustiti. Mada, kada vidjeh ovo što ste ti i Maza crtali a onda pogledao ove posljednje Marvelove stripove – fakat se začudim ovome. Jesu mogli poslati vam nekakav odgovor, ljudski u svakom smislu, no potraži na netu intervju sa Kordejem i njegovim iskustvima sa Marvelom pa ćeš vidjeti da je to golema bagra. A on je još i radio za njih. Elem, mogu sebi dopustiti luksuz da odjebu koga žele jer znaju da svi žele raditi s njima. Čitao sma i ja postove na forumu.. al’ jbg. Nije utjeha da si barem pokušao… jer si s ovakvim crtanjem ‘ladno mog'o dobit posao. BArem dvije tri epizode, kako to već kod njih ide.
    “Include more backgrounds to give us a better sense of place.”
    ovo mi je zaparalo uši. Pazi, čopor njihovih stripova i nema pozadine do kompjuterske. Koju opet radi neko drugi a ne taj hudi “penciler” – nabijem ih :/

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